Jasmine, 20

Oakland, California | April 5th, 2021

Date of Interview: July 6th, 2020

What is your ethnicity? There's a lot of us who are mixed with different things like Vietnamese, Lao, Cham, Chinese.

I feel like I'm a mutt of things. My mom and dad were both born in Battambang and they immigrated here, but I’ve been hearing from my dad’s side that my grandma was Chinese, and they had some kind of pure Chinese in them because they had arranged marriages. And then my grandma on my mom’s side, she’s Thai, so I’m kind of a mix of Thai, Lao, Chinese, and Cambodian. But I consider myself to be mainly Cambodian because my parents were born in Battambang.

How connected do you feel to Khmer culture?

Growing up I didn't feel connected at all. ‘Cause you know, I was born here in Oakland, it's very American, my parents assimilated, so they didn't really keep the culture. So, I grew up speaking a little bit of Khmer only to grandma and otherwise English. So growing up, I did feel a connection, but it's not until now that I've been exploring my roots and trying to feel more connected and being part of the community.

How do you feel about your facial features? Meaning your eyes, your nose, and your lips.

I feel like my family has very big eyes. I love it. And we're very hairy, so we have nice eyebrows, hair all over. We have nice big lips and we have flat noses, which I've felt insecure about growing up a little bit. And a very dark brown skin tone. So yeah, just a little insecure. But for the most part, my mom has taught me to be proud of who I am and how I look, and to never let how other people see me affect me. So yeah, I mean doesn't really affect me. I did grow up a little insecure, but now I've learned to embrace it and love Khmer culture.

"…my mom has taught me to be proud of who I am and how I look, and to never let how other people see me affect me. So yeah, I mean doesn't really affect me. I did grow up a little insecure, but now I've learned to embrace it and love Khmer culture.”

Can you talk more about your nose and your insecurities while growing up?

Okay, so growing up, I wanted to be White, you know, I wanted to be like a White person. Everything that I did had to be White. I had White friends and everything. And you know, White people have like pointed noses and very symmetrical faces, so I was a little insecure about it. The reason is‒I really don't know why‒I feel like it was natural, especially if you're born from immigrant families and you're in this country growing up, so it was kind of like a tear between them. Two Worlds. I grew up a little insecure. 

How do you think others would describe your skin tone?

Brown, dark brown, just tan.

Have you ever had your skin color ever been named by Cambodian people for example? Common names for Brown women in Khmer culture are khmao/ខ្មៅ (black) or Sreymao/ស្រីម៉ៅ (black girl) or Srey Sraem/ស្រីស្រអែម (tan girl) or say that you were Sraem/ស្រអែម (tan)?

I've done khmao/ខ្មៅ (black). The rest I haven't really heard, but definitely khmao/ខ្មៅ (black).

How do you feel about your skin color?

As for now, I have a love-hate relationship. I love brown skin in general because I know that Saw/ស (white) people, White people, want to be darker. But then, dark people want to be lighter. Growing up, I didn't have a low self esteem or anything. I had healthy relationships and I do love being Brown.

What would you say are the associations of being a Brown Cambodian woman in our community? 

Media and everything portrays Asian people to be super light and bright colored, and a lot of people want to bleach their skin to be lighter. So being a Brown person makes you feel that way: that you want to be lighter. It sucks that we do have anti-Blackness in this community, but that’s how we were built and [wanting to be lighter as a Brown person is] what I feel comes with that.

Where would you place yourself skin color-wise with respect to all Cambodians in Cambodia, from the lightest of Cambodians to the darkest of Cambodians?

I’m middle tone.

Our next question is about Cambodian media. This includes karaoke, music videos, art, Apsara paintings, think about advertisements, think about TV shows, movies, and comedies, all of that. Do you feel represented? Do you feel like you see people who look like you?

Nope. 100% No.

Can you talk about what you actually see?

So when I look into Khmer media, I see a lot of girls with powdered faces and very light skin. It confuses me because I know that people in Cambodia are not that light. And we definitely do need more dark, brown skin representation in the media. I just feel like it's portraying a lie and not a truth, but it's like that with all cultures. Like our Miss Cambodian American, she's super light, and I'm like, “dang, I have to look up to this and that's not me.”

If you were to be cast in any Cambodian media, we're talking music videos, karaoke videos, comedies, an Apsara painting, what role would you be casted as? What role do you think they would put you as?

Oh man, I don't even know. I feel like I would not be casted. With everything that's going on I feel like I wouldn't because you don't see Brown people in the media. Sucks.

Why do you think that or why is it that in Cambodia there are a lot of lighter skinned people who are occupying these elite spaces?

Well, if you think about our history, we were colonized by people who are lighter than us like the French and I feel like they had a heavy influence on our society. It's like that here in America too with Black Americans and White Americans. Therefore, they're gonna want to do everything of French culture or that culture, what they see around them. And Chinese, too.

Have you ever experienced colorism within the Cambodian community?

I don't think so. Maybe when I was little, but it's still a blur. It's because most of my family members, we’re all dark, so we never had anyone of a lighter skin tone or a family member date a White person.

How do you think that would change if all your family members were lighter than you?

I would think it would change significantly. I’d be the black sheep of the family or the misfit and outcast. I feel like they would disown me. 

What do you think are some things that they would say to you?

“She's khmao/ខ្មៅ (black), she's not like us, she's different, she doesn't belong here.” 

Do you think it would be different if you were the white one in your family and everybody else was dark?

It would put me at a privilege and I feel like they would be praising me more and how I look and be like, “Oh, she's going to be the one to marry first,” something like that.

Based on your knowledge of Cambodia, what kind of jobs do you see people who look like you and people and people who are darker than you working in Cambodia?

When I picture this, I see a lot of slave work, I see a lot of labor work, working in a factory, or selling things to foreigners coming into the country, or being the ones to sell things in markets. That's kind of how I see that. It's not until I go to Cambodia; until I actually see.

What about people who are lighter than you, so lighter Cambodians. What kind of jobs do you imagine them working in Cambodia?

More intellectual work like professors, doctors, nurses, engineers, more of the higher-end, privileged jobs.

Why that divide? Why do you think?

Because I do know that we have a colorism problem in our community. It's very out there and easy to see.

If you had a smaller, pointier nose, had just different more ideal features to society, how do you think your relationship with Cambodians in general, like the Cambodian community, how do you think your relationship with Cambodians would be?

Oh goodness, definitely better because I would have those features. They’d treat me like a queen or princess out there. ‘Cause my cousin is actually Miss Cambodian-American, she did have a story where the men would try to do things for her and everybody out there treated her like a queen. I feel like people in Cambodia would treat me differently because I'd have those features and I’d just have privileges that would make my life easier.

What do you mean by making your life easier?

They’d do anything I asked them to or business relationships would be easier because they’d want everything to do with me, to be part of business. Because of those features, I'd be on more magazines, I'd be on more in the media, I'd be given more opportunities than those who wouldn’t  get those opportunities.

How do you think your relationship with members of the opposite gender would be?

Definitely better. Like I said earlier, if I were the whiter one of my family, they would be like, “Oh, she’d get married first.” I feel like most men have this dream of wanting to be with a white girl.

How do you think your skin color affects your value or how do you think your marriage situation will go?

When people think of the color white, they think pure, innocent, and I feel like marriage comes with that package of things. So, it’d be a lot better and because I'd be associated with those things. Finding a spouse‒because that's what I feel like a lot of people look for in a woman: purity, innocence, being whiter‒would be better.

Say your parents wanted you to marry a Khmer person, would they want your Khmer husband to be lighter or darker or the same color as you?

To them, I don't think it would matter as long as he's Khmer ‘cause we’re a family of brown skins, so it wouldn’t matter. 

What kind of education do you think you would have if your parents were very light-skinned, privileged Cambodians?

Well, if they were definitely privileged and they knew how the system worked in America and they went to college and graduated, I definitely would have a better opportunity for education and resources.

What kind of house would you be living in? Where would you be located?

We'd be in the Oakland Hills overlooking the city, and just [be in] a nicer house because they have a lot of potential and they're very smart people.

Are there a lot of Cambodians near Oakland or near your area where you're saying?

In my area, no, but in the ghetto part of Oakland, like in the east side and the west side, yeah. That's where you got gangs.

Do you know any Cambodians in the Oakland hills that you mentioned?

No. Nope.

How would you describe your family’s and your skin color in comparison to all the Cambodians in Oakland? 

Same, we’re all the same tone. I've never really met a really white Cambodian ever. That's why I think everything in the media is portraying a lie because I've never seen a very light-skin Cambodian unless they were a hybrid baby.

If you could change anything in your life, what would you change or what would you do?

I wouldn’t change anything about my life. I'm pretty satisfied where I'm at and I'm happy because I'm currently working to start a women's basketball national team in Cambodia. I feel like that'll definitely bring me to my roots and a free ticket to Cambodia. This journey has been overwhelming but happy, all everything in between. So, I wouldn't change anything about my life.

Knowing that this is going to be on a public website, is there anything that you would like to add or anything that you missed? Or, anything to the audience that will be looking at this website or just the Cambodian community in general?

I feel like you shouldn't change who you are. You should be proud of where you come from, the history of what our people have endured and how far our parents have come, and how far we are going as a generation. I feel like we're the generation of change and understanding, and I can't wait until we start inspiring each other and we get older, we have our kids, we're able to tell them these stories, what we've gone through, that we survived the coronavirus, the Black Lives Matter movement, the stories of our peoples, and what we've been through in our hardships.