Melanie, 25

San Diego, California | April 4th, 2021

Date of interview: July 3rd, 2020

What is your ethnicity? Do you also know if you are part Chinese, Lao, Thai, Vietnamese, Cham, etc.?

I am, in short, Khmer, Chinese, and Thai. I guess the breakdown is‒the easiest way to think about it is my two sets of grandparents, my mom's side: my yeay/យាយ (grandmother) full Khmer, ethnically Khmer; then my grandpa, my kong/កុង (grandfather) is ethnically Chinese, but he lived in Cambodia and for a short period of time he survived the Khmer Rouge. Then on my dad's side: my grandmother's Thai and then my grandfather is Cambodian Chinese. I don't really know what the percentages are and everything; they're kind of all mixed on both sides, but that's the general breakdown.

How connected do you feel to Khmer culture itself? Have you been to Cambodia before or being in America only, how connected do you feel to your family or just the culture, etc.?

I've been [in Cambodia] in 2011 for a little bit‒not to visit Angkor Wat‒eat Khmer food all the time, wear my sarong all the time, I speak Khmer with my friends sometimes. I feel like a lot of us Cambodian-Americans relate. Living here, we feel in touch, but also sometimes your grandparents are like “You're not koun/កូន (child) Khmer because you do this and that,” but then with your American friends, “You're so Cambodian.” It’s a weird kind of dynamic identity thing.

How do you feel about your facial features?

My dad has strong genes. My parents are separated, and I look nothing like my mother. Sometimes I'm like, “Am I even your kid?” She has a very slender nose, a high jawline, and I used to grow up thinking, “Oh, my mother's so beautiful, but I don't look like her.” Some of my dad's characteristics that all of my half siblings share is that we have that wider‒what my family calls it‒Thai nose; we don't have a prominent bridge. Proportion-wise, our eyebrows are bushier, and we have the Asian hooded eyelids. Growing up, my mom would tell me after I take a hot shower to pinch my nose. I remember thinking like, “Can you actually change the structure of your face just by pinching it?” but I kind of internalized that as, “Okay, something's wrong with my nose,” because my mom is always trying to have me change it. Even with the way that I emote sometimes, she would kind of just call me out like, “Don't make that face, you look like your dad.” This idea that looking like dad is bad, I internalized that. There's this quote in Khmer‒everyone that sees me that knows my dad, they're like, “Oh, you're [dad’s name]’s kid,” they're like “mouk doich aich/មុខដូចអាចម៍ (face looks like poop).” The literal translation is not exactly what it means, it’s “You look so alike that even your poop looks alike,” if that makes sense. So, my nose definitely had a huge impact on how I came to understand beauty. 

How do you feel about your skin color itself and how would you describe it? How do you feel about your skin color?

It changed over the years. I was a lot more tan in high school, I think because I was playing a lot of sports, spending a lot of time in the sun. But, right now, when I match foundation for example, it's like a medium, golden medium, and then because of the quarantine, staying inside I get a little lighter. But, I think generally it's like a medium to medium tan. 

In terms of how I feel, I think in high school I wished I was lighter. I was trying to wear sunscreen, stay out of the sun, and try to get my skin to be lighter. I think just growing up and after college, and becoming more educated, wherever I am is wherever I am. There's one time recently, my grandmother was on a Zoom call and her Cambodian friend was like, “Oh, is that your chao/ចៅ (grandchild)? Baan chao saat nah/បានចៅស្អាតណាស់ (You have such a pretty grandchild).” Her only measure of that was because of what she saw, was [that] I was light skinned, but otherwise it’s like she didn't even see what I actually looked like. It's interesting.

Keeping that in mind, how do you think others would describe your skin color?

Currently because I'm lighter than usual‒just again, just being inside more often‒I feel like I don't get as much, for lack of a better word, backlash or criticism as when I was more tan. My grandparents especially are more traditional family members: “Have you tried this product? This papaya soap is really good with lightening your skin.” So, connecting the two, “Okay, I'm too dark for them.” But now I don't really have people shoving those products in my face as often. It's definitely changed, but as of now I think color is definitely a big thing.

In comparison with your family and this can be your immediate family, would you say that you are the lightest, darkest, same tone, in terms of your skin color with your family?

My sister and I would probably be the lightest. But, again, my family just spends a lot of time in the sun; they do camping and stuff, so it's hard to tell if that's just their natural color, their pigmentation, or if they just spent a lot of time in the sun.

Where do you think your skin, your hair, and your features come from? 

For hair, I also have thick, wavy, frizzy [hair] I think I got from my dad, and if I were to attribute which heritage, that’s my Thai side. I definitely feel the way I look is the furthest off from my Chinese culture. I've always had this idea that Chinese people are more light skinned; they have more slender noses. The only thing that I really contributed was my smaller eyes, but as a whole ethnic, all Asians kind of have similar eye shapes. Most of my features would originate from Thai-Cambodian, and a lot of it is what you see on the media, or visiting the countries and just looking around at the locals. I remember comparing myself, “Do I look like I could fit in here?” and just trying to figure out that part of my identity. Am I Thai, am I Cambodian, am I too American? I felt like I most looked Thai, and maybe that's because the locals–it wasn't as obvious that I was a foreigner there. Whereas in Cambodia, everyone stared at me and they're just like, “She's not from here.”

How do you feel about this type of trend in Cambodia too because it's very common, and many Cambodians do buy these products. How do you feel about that?

I feel like there's this idea‒kind of like Chinese foot binding where you're just trying to make yourself the most marketable‒and there's a lot of cultural implications that have to do with the makeup too.

Thinking about all those forms of Cambodian media, would you say that you feel represented? Do you see people who look like you in Cambodian media in any of those forms?

When I think of Cambodian music media, I think of Preap Sovath and his sons, Sophea, and I think they're all pretty light skinned. I don't think I'd see myself necessarily represented by them because I do feel like they were kind of hand picked out of the general population. The comedian Krem, who I feel would be more representative of me than the average Cambodian singer, and I think it's just because he's on the darker side, it looks more like the average person.

If you were to be casted in Cambodian media, music videos, TV shows, movies, comedies, karaoke...What do you expect based on what you've seen in Cambodian media and what people play different roles, what do you think they would cast you as and what do you think your lines would be like?

Definitely not karaoke, there's usually a lead singer; I don't feel like I'm representative of that. Comedy, maybe just because I feel like they're a little looser in terms of what you look like, but I'm not funny, so there's that. But, in terms of looks maybe comedy.

When you say looser, could you describe exactly what you see? What's the difference in appearance between people you see in music videos, the male and the female leads, and people you see in comedy?

In terms of women, Khmer female singers, definitely all of them are on the lighter side; the male singers, most of them, they're not as light. There's a bigger range, they're more medium. I don't know many that are on the darker side. In terms of comedy, I would see it as more in the middle, less about what they look like and more about what they’re going to perform. They're more representative with the average person, the slender nose is not as prominent and all those different facial features that society has deemed to be more beautiful. It's not as prevalent as in a music video, for example.

Why do you think that these elite spaces in Cambodia are lighter?

I think it has to do a lot with privilege, since the beginning of time. I don't know the origins of why lighter skin was more preferable, why humans as a civilization thought it’s more preferable, but I think it has a lot, in Cambodia specifically, with a genocidal context, the Khmer Rouge, and when they singled out the lighter skin. It was indicative of privilege because you weren't working in the sun. I know there's that aspect. It indicates you have enough to support yourself, you don't have to do back breaking labor just to get by. I think that sort of evolved into everybody wanting to be able to live a life of not having to work super hard or do physical labor, and maybe that translated into “That's the ideal life, that's the ideal beauty standard.” Especially in an agricultural country as Cambodia, it's just really, short answer, indicative of your privilege and I think that's the main thing anyway. 

On what it means in a Cambodian context, meaning what kind of privileges exactly do you think or do you observe that lighter Cambodians or Chinese Cambodians receive over darker?

In Cambodia, it comes down to essentially what I said before when you're not having to work in the fields as much because your parents can afford to send you to school. You're indoors, so you're not getting as tanned, and whereas if you grew up poor and having from a young age having to work out in the fields, obviously more sun exposure. Cambodia being a third world country and lots of people are working out in the field, they just recognize that like, “Wow, you know you must be privileged.”

At the same time, sometimes it's just genetics. Some people are just born with darker skin, but despite whether or not you have more money or opportunities afforded to you, sometimes you don't get the same treatment as someone who has maybe had lighter skin. I definitely feel like if a lighter American were to visit Cambodia, usually my relatives are very impressed by them, especially if they're lighter skin like, “Oh, you live in the states. You must have a great life and lots of money and a nice place to live, you get to go to school.” Whereas perhaps the same person who had darker skin were to visit, they wouldn't get that same conceptions made about them, just on the basis of their skin because they're assumed.

Describe how colorism affects or has affected your life. 

I was on our Zoom call and she needed help troubleshooting something, and her friend from Stockton got a peek of me through the camera. She's like “Baan chao saat nah/បានចៅស្អាតណាស់ (You have such a pretty grandchild).” Then she was like, “Oh, her skin is very light,” but she got a two second glimpse. She probably doesn't even remember what I actually looked like, but because I appeared light all of a sudden, I'm pretty. Growing up, I've never felt beautiful, I've never felt pretty and a lot of that has to do with the acne, having a flat nose, and small eyes. When I had acne I was also darker, so no one would just come to me and be like, “Oh, you're beautiful,” but all of a sudden, when the acne cleared, I also got lighter just as a consequence. Now all of a sudden, I get random grandmas from the neighborhood who come visit, they're like, “Your chao/ចៅ (grandchild) is so pretty. She's so pretty, her skin is so light,” it's always “her skin is so light” right after. I don't really know how to feel about it. When someone compliments you and tells you you're beautiful, you want to believe them, but then it's almost like I don't because it's just that I have pale skin. It wouldn't even matter what I looked like; there's just this really high standard. That was the biggest thing. It was so obvious, that change: it was “Oh my God, what's wrong with your granddaughter's face?” to “Wow, your granddaughter’s so pretty.” Especially if I'm wearing makeup, the foundation kind of lightens your skin a little bit, evens it out, then they think you're so beautiful. I find it more with the more traditional Khmer community, not so much the newer generation, but I would say that's the biggest change I noticed, personally.

What kind of jobs do you see people who look like you working in Cambodia?

In Cambodia if I were to go into the countryside, I might not see as many people that look like me in terms of skin color, working straight in the fields. Maybe if it was a farming family, she’d be cooking in the house or something. In terms of labor versus inside, I feel like the people that would most look like me would be more inside. But, again, that could just be my own idea of what I think would happen but I actually have no idea.

What kind of jobs would you see people who are lighter than you working, and what kind of jobs would you see people who are darker or much darker than you working?

On my grandma’s side, we’re very poor. A lot of them literally live in wooden houses still without flushing toilets. What they do is they send their kids off for months at a time to work at factories and stuff. That's my darker toned family, and then I have other family who kind of own, not a hospital, but a place where sick people can come and they pay for a certain amount of nights to spend there to get better. They own that, they have AC blasting all parts of the day, showers and toilets and mattresses and everything, and they are actually lighter skin. They have more of a choice and they have the luxury of not having to leave home for long periods of time, or go into dangerous work and get paid very, very minimal wage for it.

How do you think your life would be different if you were lighter, if you had different features like a smaller pointy or nose, if you had thinner more East Asian hair? What will your relationship with your family be like?

My sister, for example‒we're half, so we look nothing alike‒she takes after my mom; she has that smaller nose, she's very light skinned, she's tall. She's that ideal of beauty and I'm seven years older than her, but people still think she's the older sister. One confidence for sure, growing up as a young girl and you're still forming your ideas of what it means to be beautiful, it's the little things. My sister‒she's driving and she told me some guys were trailing her once, and they're trying to get her number. That never happens to me, that's not a thing for me, I don't get catcalled. 

Would you say that your appearance has changed or determined your relationship with your family? How do you think it would be different? Would you think that you would live more of a favored lifestyle like your sister?

I hate it sometimes just thinking about it. I've gotten better; as you get older, you just learn to realize it's not your fault. A lot of therapy has helped too. The nose was probably the biggest thing. When I was born, I looked exactly like [my dad]‒you couldn't deny it. So, there's this whole backstory that it’s like, “So, what? Lots of people have noses that look like mine,” but I think it hurts a little more knowing the circumstance behind it. Most of my mom's side when we go to my family for Chinese New Years‒I look nothing like them; they all have the more Chinese facial features. I always felt like the odd one out, and it always made me feel like I was not really a part of the family, in a way, because we don't look alike and your family's supposed to look alike. Definitely with them it [would have] changed and I can't imagine, or I can imagine, what my confidence would have been or what my life would have been if I learned to be okay with how I looked. Maybe I’d be more confident because I wouldn't be led to question that there was something wrong with my nose, or my hair, or my eyes, etc.

How would you think your relationship with older Cambodians would be? If you go to the temple, if you go to a family gathering, a party...if you were a much lighter Cambodian girl, how do you think you'd be treated?

Honestly, like royalty. I've seen them when [grandmothers] go around and they introduce who’s who, and it’s like, “Oh, that's my granddaughter” and “That's your granddaughter? Wow, she's so so pretty,” but they really mean she's so light skinned. I think that would change, whereas, it could be like that, or being medium: “It's just my granddaughter,” “Oh no, she's studying going to school.” Beauty doesn't really come up in that conversation. It could go the other way, which I've experienced is like, “What's wrong with her face?” I feel like it would be different in that way.

How do you think your relationship with members of the opposite gender would be or change if you were a much lighter Cambodian girl?

With color alone, I don't know if it would change. Facial features might be the thing. Maybe because when I think of dating and everything, I think of a college, sort of, neighborhood, and everyone's a little more “woke” and not as judgmental in terms of color. I don't know if color would necessarily change it in that kind of environment, but in the general environment it could possibly, like those random strangers. It might be more favorable; you're on Tinder and people like their pictures, maybe having lighter skin people are more inclined. But, I'm not really sure if it would change just because I haven't had that experience. I've always been around both. My boyfriend is Khmer as well and he's medium as well. So, I don't think it would have changed.

Instead of you being lighter, but your parents, if they were lighter. How do you think your life would have been different? What kind of education would you have, what kind of house would you be living in, where would you even be located?

If my parents were lighter, internal beauty standards might be even more‒I might feel even less beautiful because why are my parents lighter and I'm not? There's a possibility that might change. I was born and raised in the hood, it's called City Heights in San Diego, so it's hard to say if I think that if my parents were lighter, we'd live in a wealthier area. They're refugees, so they started off with nothing. Oh, maybe it might be easier for them to work up the ranks; my mom lives in Murrieta now, which is a predominantly Caucasian neighborhood and there are huge houses, so I'm not sure if her skin color might have gotten her there quicker.

Is there anything that you would like to add or say to the audience, or if you were thinking about something while we were interviewing?

I'm still learning to take to heart myself as a lot of these things are out of our control. We can buy lightening creams and or go to tanning salons, or do plastic surgery; we can control it in that aspect, but sometimes we can't. Sometimes it makes life just a little bit easier. It's easier said than done, of course, but just learning to love what we have, embrace it. I used to say this thing...I wrote a play for Khmer club once and the main character’s line was‒he’s a little boy who wants to do Khmer dance, but they’re like, “You're too dark; you can’t” and he's like, “My mom says that the darker you are, the more the Gods love you,” because the more protection you have from the sun. I always like to throw that around.

“I wrote a play for Khmer club once and the main character’s line was... ‘My mom says that the darker you are, the more the Gods love you,’ because the more protection you have from the sun.”