Samantha, 24

Los Angeles, California | January 23rd, 2022

Date of interview: July 16th, 2020

[I’m] Samantha. I was born in Garden Grove, California.  I don't really live there now. I'm currently studying in Huntington Beach.

Could you describe the community and the neighborhood, and how it's changed?

Growing up in Garden Grove, in the beginning, it wasn't the safest neighborhood at the time because there was some gang activity. I remember the graffiti on my parents’ walls at times, [and] every time they painted over it, it would come back again. So growing up, I didn't really understand why things were the way they were, but as time went on, things did get better in my neighborhood. 

I guess, within that community, I didn't really feel like I fit in all too much. I had a few Cambodian friends but they were more like family friends of my parents. I just felt like it was very different because my friends could talk to each other in their languages, but I didn’t really have anyone that I could speak [Khmer] with; that was my language. But that was when I was just growing up. But when I moved to Westwood, I felt it was diverse and I was just exposed to a whole new community where everybody was very accepting of who you are, what you look like, and that's where I first discovered my Cambodian community. So I joined United Khmer Students which is [the] Cambodian Association on campus.

It was just a really great experience here, and then after I moved to North Hollywood, I would also say it's very diverse but I was just more removed from my Cambodian community and it was more of a struggle of “okay, I’m growing up now, I’m an adult. How do I make friends?” I would say that after moving from North Hollywood and finally coming here, my main community was at Cal State Long Beach. And, I would say that Cal State Long Beach is also very diverse, so that was also something that was really nice to have. I would say over there, I saw more Hispanic people and Asian people as well.

You mentioned you speak Khmer at home. How much Khmer do you speak at home or do you speak a mix of Khmer and English?

So, I don't speak Khmer that fluently. My parents, they told me that they didn’t really push me to speak Khmer because they wanted me to assimilate into the American education system better so that I would be able to do better in school because they believed that if I spoke Khmer first, I would struggle in school. So, that’s always as it has been. In terms of my fluency, I can understand and sort of reply but it’s not like at the level I would like it to be at. In order to sort of combat that, I did take a course at UC Berkeley.

What is your ethnicity?

I think my parents don't usually talk about it. They prefer to just refer to themselves as fully Khmer. Although I don't know the exact history of where my ancestors came from, I know that my grandparents on my mom's side, they are part Chinese. My grandpa on my mom's side speaks Teochew and some Thai, some Vietnamese, but I would just say maybe Cambodian with some Chinese there. And then with my dad’s side, I'm not entirely sure, but I can just see it as calling themselves Cambodian. But, we don't have any ties to Chinese traditions or any other traditions.

How connected do you feel to Khmer culture?

I’ve always felt like I’ve had a deep connection with Khmer culture when I was younger. Because I did not grow up in a predominantly Khmer area, I didn’t have too many relatives who are living close to me. I wanted to get to know the history of Cambodia because I know it affected my parents greatly and I wanted to know why certain things like why they may have reacted to things the way they do. So I wanted to go to the library and read as much as I could about Cambodian history and that's mostly reading about Khmer knowledge about what happened during the Khmer Rouge. And then, it allowed me to ask my parents questions about their history, but also being sensitive to knowing what happened. So, there’s that when I was younger, just being very interested in Cambodian history and pursuing a Cambodian community when I went to UCLA. When I went to UCLA, I didn't have to join a Cambodian club. I could’ve done other things but I felt like it was a really good opportunity for me to get to know other people who may understand the same background [as] we have the same background and share the same experiences.

I would say that the Cambodian community at UCLA was sort of just an eye opening experience because it was the first time I was really surrounded by people who looked like me, who had the same experiences, and that was something really special. And then also, my freshman year I had an opportunity to intern as the Cambodian Culture Night intern, so that allowed me to transition into becoming the Culture Night Director the following year. And in order to write this script, I just thought back to what stories my grandparents used to tell me and so I drew on Cambodian folklore and just wanted to bring that piece of Cambodian culture to the UCLA community. So that’s a thing I also really wanted to do and I'm glad that I was able to have the opportunity to do [so].

How do you feel about your facial features, meaning your nose, your eyes, your face shape, your lips, etc.?

I would say right now at this right moment of where I am and who I’ve become, I feel like I've become more confident as a person, like I’m more accepting of how I look,like more comfortable with it. Before when I was younger, I did have these feelings of I don't look like my friends who I grew up with. I feel like I look different and I don't necessarily meet the same beauty standards I see when I look at them on TV. I don't look like those people that you see on TV or in magazines and ads, so. I remember looking at things like, “oh, what do Cambodian girls look like? Is this normal? Like how I look.” So when I looked up–I did a Google search on descriptions of Cambodian people, you’re petite, you might be shorter, and you might have a nose that is a little bit–I don't know how to describe it exactly–but, maybe your nose is more like less slim, and our lips are more full, and our hair might be curlier too. Thicker, curlier. Our skin will be darker than other people who are also Asian. So, that's one description I read and I was like “Okay, I do realize that I look Cambodian and I don't look like other people.” 

So, I remember being self conscious sometimes and my appearance. Sometimes I might say to myself, “I wish I looked different.” So, maybe…I don’t know how to describe it, but I wish I had an idea of what a Cambodian model looks like, and like, “What does she look like? What are those beauty standards?” Like why can't I see more Cambodians basically in positions where I can look up to them like that is a representation of beauty as well? These were the things that were going through my head when I was younger because, again, I didn’t see people who look like me really.

How do you feel about your hair?

I feel like…I’ve always liked my hair because when I was younger and still trying to figure out makeup and just how to look presentable, I always liked how my hair looked pretty wavy when I woke up and it just looked pretty <chuckles>. ‘Cause I remember thinking to myself when I was younger, “Oh, I think one of my favorite features about myself is my hair.” 

I think it’s mostly because I did see pictures of my mom when she was younger and she had amazing thick hair that was curly and stuff, and I was like, “I wanna look like my mom when I grow up!” It's like, okay, I think that my hair is something that I got from her and I think it's pretty.

I’ve always liked my hair because when I was younger and still trying to figure out makeup and just how to look presentable, I always liked how my hair looked pretty wavy when I woke up and it just looked pretty <chuckles>. ‘Cause I remember thinking to myself when I was younger, “Oh, I think one of my favorite features about myself is my hair.” 

Can you please describe your skin color?

I like to describe my skin as like golden. Not like a goddess but just ethereal–anyway, but I like to describe it as golden because I just think it's a really nice way of describing it and it's pretty. I tanned pretty easily in the sun when I was younger. I played water polo and I could swim as well so I got really tan, I had tan lines and all that. And I remember my relatives always making comments on how dark I was. Even when I was younger, they would always make comments whenever they call me. They’d give me little updates on their observations like, “Oh, you got a little darker.” So, don't make me feel self conscious like why does it matter how dark I look? Is it not a good thing? Like, I’m wearing sunscreen and I'm trying to protect my skin, but why does how dark I look matter? So those were questions I had growing up.

How do others describe it?

Yeah, they would say mostly just say srey khmao/ស្រីខ្មៅ (black girl), so that just played in my whole feeling of relating it back to how people see Black people too. Like calling me khmao/ខ្មៅ (black), does that equate me to their perception of Black people as well? So, that just gives me some insight as to how they viewed other people. They might not necessarily realize it, but I feel like that was a projection onto their beauty standards as well and what they saw as beautiful skin color and was not. Not necessarily black and white but it felt like black and white, like good or bad. Like being dark, that was bad.

Where do you think your skin, hair, and features come from?

For me, personally I feel like I'm just very Cambodian. So, to answer your question, I feel like it's just like from my Cambodian side. I guess my relatives would say I look more like my mom who also identifies as very Cambodian. I will say that I do have grandparents who I never met who do have lighter skin, and so they would call her yeay saw/យាយស (white grandma). Like my sister who's lighter, you might say that she got her skin color from that side. So, those are just examples of how we might say like, “Oh, you got your skin color and your features from this person and somebody else got it from that person.” And it might be related to the skin or how the others look. 

How do you feel about your skin color?

I like my skin color. I’m at the point where I think it's beautiful as well. Something that I like to do is I like to describe it as Cambodian girls making it out there and just admire how far we’ve come in terms of that. Because when I was looking for other people who looked like me, I saw a post where there were some girls…I don’t know, it just looked like they were trying really hard to look like somebody else. It was difficult to find somebody who just embraced their skin color and what they look like without trying to change who they are. To answer your question pointedly, I like who I am now and what I look like.

“I like my skin color. I’m at the point where I think it's beautiful as well. Something that I like to do is I like to describe it as Cambodian girls making it out there and just admire how far we’ve come in terms of that.”

Has it always been like this? You kind of touched on it a little briefly, but could you talk more about when you were younger and how you felt about your skin color?

When my relatives would make those comments like, “Oh, you look darker!” I would think to myself, “Oh, is that bad? Like should I do more to [not] stand in the sun, and should I be doing other things to protect my skin? If what I'm doing is not enough with my sunscreen, should I just be sitting inside and holding an umbrella all the time?” So my mom, when I was younger, she would have these products which I’m sure were very prevalent in Asian stores, those skin whitening products. And I would look at it, and I would think to myself, “Why?” “How safe is it to use this product?” and “How important is it to make your skin lighter?” A lot of the time when I was younger, we would–like my friends would hold up their arms next to mine, like, “Who's darker?” or make comments like, “Oh I'm lighter, I’m darker,” things like that. Like, does that change like anything about our dynamic? Like does it mean that whoever is prettier is lighter than the other? It's just little things like that make you think a little bit more about what those little comments and interactions mean. It was always a little bit of an internal struggle where I’m like “Oh, I just wish my mom loved how I looked regardless if I look a little darker or if I stayed out in the sun a little too much.”

Have you used those white lightening creams that your mom gave you?

I feel like she might have given me some, but I don’t think I really used it all that much. Honestly, I don't really want to use it and I think I thought it was pretty unnecessary, and that was just something that older people like to push on me because of their beliefs about beauty. So, it took a while of just internal thinking about how I viewed myself and if that extra step was worth it. Does that make sense? Like taking the effort to put these products on my skin in hopes of looking more beautiful. I feel like [if] I wear it, it’ll only damage my skin. I even did the research on the products. 

So, all those things went into my mind and I don’t know if this is related to the question as well, but I remember going to this event and there was this makeup artist, a Cambodian makeup artist was there, and she did my makeup for fun but the lightest color that she had–I mean the darkest darkest color she had, which is foundation, was really light. I was like, “it doesn’t even match my skin color!” So, I feel like in terms of beauty, even if you’re super light, if it doesn't match the rest of you, it doesn’t look that well. It was just an observation I made like, “you’re Cambodian, but you can’t even match my skin tone!” 

How do you think you fit on the color spectrum, but with respect to all of Cambodia?

When I think about colorism, I think about why it exists. From what I understand [colorism] is really class based. So, the perception is that people who are darker are maybe low-income, they’re darker because they have to work in the fields and they're just lower class, whereas people who are lighter skin are high income, they don't have to work outside, they're working white collar jobs, things like that.

Based on what I know, I might say that Cambodia, since there are people of all types and there’s this spectrum, so where I’d put myself there, I would think I'm somewhere in the middle probably. Although, I do know that maybe K-Pop is becoming more popular now, so when I talk to people who actually live in Cambodia or are from Cambodia, they’re very Kpop oriented and so they would tell me things like, “Oh, people want to look more like K-Pop artists, so they'll try more skin lightening products.” So I don't know how that recent trend is affecting how people look there. I would think that on average, I would look like a typical Cambodian, just maybe Americanisms in speech.

Do you feel represented in Cambodian media? Do you see people who look like you?

I feel like the women who I see in the dramas, especially recently, they don’t really look like what I would expect. Like a couple years ago, they look pretty Cambodian and now I feel like it's less so. I don't know, I just feel like everyone’s a little bit lighter skin and it just looks like I'm not watching what I was watching before in terms of how people look and I'm wondering if [it’s moving] towards K-Pop stuff. When I look like those soap opera videos and stuff, they’re very heavily makeup-ed, so I can't really say that it's something that I relate to in terms of how I look. I could probably look like that if I just followed along on Youtube. Maybe if I watched a show that is more based on real life or it’s kind of talking about the war, or some real life scenario where it's not talking about somebody acting in some fantasy world or acting in some drama. I think it's very more realistic in terms of how people are portrayed. So that's what I've seen from Cambodian media, like if I look at the ads, I feel like the woman is more light skinned. That’s what I’ve seen, yeah. So, I think when it’s something more related to something realistic or like a realistic event, then I'll see somebody who looks like me. But other than that, I haven’t really seen anything.

Let's say, one day, you get casted in Cambodian media. Not what role you would like to play, but realistically given what you know about Cambodian media, what role would they put you as and what would your lines be like?

I’m trying to think really realistically compared to what I want to do and what they might cast me as. The only thing I can really think of is being in some sort of show or a movie where they’re trying to portray something realistic. I don’t see myself being portrayed as or being put into the [media] unless they’re trying to sell skin whitening products, unless they’re trying to show a before and after, but I don’t really see that happening because I feel like there’s so much manipulation of media there. 

I feel like it wouldn’t make sense for me to be the co-star based on how I look because I feel like they would tend to have someone who is taller, lighter, and I’d probably be several degrees away from that star position. Maybe like a friend, someone who wouldn’t have a big role. I’d be more secondary unfortunately, but I feel like that would be the case. It sucks, but.

Why is it or why do you think that these elite spaces are always significantly lighter?

I feel like in places of privilege, they have access to things that other people would not have, so if they want to look a certain way, they would have the resources to make that happen, like having surgery, or being able to purchase more effective products that will make them achieve that look if they want.

Describe how colorism affects your life.

I feel like the way that colorism affects my life, it stems from how I was treated as a child and how that sort of hit how I view myself. So it just served as an obstacle in self-acceptance, and I view it as something that is negative for me because all I wanted to hear from the people that I respect and want the acceptance of is that they accept me for who I am. And that’s something that I would want my kids or people I care about to also know that they don’t have to feel pressured by any beauty standards, and if they want to do–but certainly they can or by all means they can do whatever they want, but it shouldn’t be based on some sort of pressure or feeling of not being accepted for who they are and what they look like. So I think that the way that colorism affects me is just how I, in the future, just carry on that mentality of not perpetuating it. I wouldn’t want other people, especially young girls or young boys, who are growing up and feeling all these other things of growing up, to feel like they aren’t beautiful for what they look like. 

What kind of connotations did people think of you because of your appearance and how do you think that played into your life?

“[My experiences with colorism] mostly had to do with just fitting in and feeling like by being darker, by knowing so many things about how people might perceive me, knowing that my relatives have these certain perceptions of darker skinned people, and knowing that [it’s] something that is probably viewed by many people in the Cambodian community, [colorism] played into my friendships with people. Like “Can I be friends with this person? What if they don’t like how I look and they think that I am inferior?” I don’t like to use that word “inferior,” but if you view someone and you judge them based on their skin color and think that they’re less than you, then that's pretty messed up <chuckles>. So my relatives might feel like, “Oh, maybe you need to just rub your skin more, get all that grime, maybe it will help you look lighter.” It just played a big role in how I navigated through the world and felt like if someone didn’t want to be my friend, I would ask why. Is it because of how I look, is it because of where I came from, there’s so many things at play, but a big part is the understanding that people tend to flock towards people who look like them, and they accept people based on their perceptions of what is acceptable in society, so if I don’t match that, then…that’s just gonna be an obstacle.

What do you think contributed the most to your self esteem or the way that you feel about colorism now or the way it's affecting your life?

I feel like a lot of it had to do with how I was raised and just the repercussions of the war, so just that, and with the addition of just looking different among my friends, that made me feel like I couldn’t really relate as much to other people. So an inability to feel that connection with other people also played a role in my self-esteem too, and being someone who can make friends and be accepted. So just that feeling of acceptance played a major role. And of course that ties in with colorism because of how I see myself and what I look like. 

What kind of jobs do you see people who look like you working in Cambodia?

Typically somebody who might look like me would just be a typical person in Cambodia and knowing that Cambodians are still struggling–I mean, things are getting better for sure, no doubt about that, but–I feel like I would just be a normal person, not necessarily in a position of higher power, but I could be, but I would say less so.  

How do you perceive people who are a lot lighter than you, so like the ideal Cambodian, you said it was very light, where do you think they would fit in?

I feel like you just wouldn’t see a really light skinned person working hard in the fields, it's just not gonna happen. It takes a lot of work in order to. If you don't look light like that to begin with, you're going to need to purchase certain products and maintain that, so already, we've had this  ability to achieve that look. In order to do so, they’re probably going to be in a position of merit or able to have that source of income to do so. And so, they’ll probably be working in maybe white collar jobs, maybe they’re middle-class, but they’re expanding more effort to do so. If they are of low income, then I just think you wouldn’t see too many people who look light skinned. Unless they’re naturally born that way, they might be mixed. That’s just how I see it.

What about people who are a lot darker than you? What kind of jobs would they be doing?

I feel like with these questions, I’d hope that there are people who, despite what we think about if they’re light or dark, I don’t want to just put them in a box and say, “Oh, that’s where you belong.” I would hope that in Cambodia there is that room, that potential way you can break that stereotype, and be like, “Okay, I’m dark skin but I am a person who is in this place of power” or “I am able to work this high-paying, high salary job.” But typically, I would think that with how people stereotype, you might look at somebody and say, “Oh, they are probably not going to be in a place of power.” Statistically, that’s just how it is. They probably are working harder in places where they would have to labor. I just think that’s how people would perceive darker skinned people. 

Like what we were saying before about the movie industry, I feel like if you’re darker, you’re just at a disadvantage there, so it’d be less likely to see someone that is really dark skin there in that position, so. I would probably say that darker skinned people would most likely not be in positions where they would be the face of something. 

How do you think your life would be different if you were lighter? How would your relationship with your family have been if your skin had been lighter?

I feel like it would be something that my family members would be like, “Oh, I’m so jealous that your skin is lighter, I wish my skin could be like that.” I think it would come in that sort of mindset where it would be perceived as a good thing, and would be envied. I think lighter skin would be envied.

If you had much lighter skin and if you had much more “ideal” Cambodian features like the people you see on media, for example–if that was you, how do you think your relationship would be different with older Cambodians? Or let's say if you were to actually go to Cambodia, how do you think you would be treated in comparison to how you're treated now?

I just feel like if you're in a position where you're considered ideal beauty, how people view you and treat you will definitely be different. They might say–of course this is a “what if” situation–but I would expect them to be kinder and nicer and they would want to be your friend. I feel like it would be sort of a position where they are more drawn towards you because they want to be you <laughs>. If you look like the ideal image, then that’s something they want to be, so, I just feel like their attitude towards me would definitely change.

How do you think your relationship with members of the opposite gender would be in the Cambodian community if you had a thinner, pointier nose or much whiter skin?

Then I feel like, again, if you are the image of beauty then more people would want you–I’m not saying that I'm not, but–I feel like there's like more people that want to get to know you and they would treat you differently, people will talk about you more, I feel. You can be unassuming but if you're really pretty, people are going to talk about you. If you look like what they want, in terms of envy or just beauty then, how people treat you will be different, how the opposite gender will treat you in terms of expressing interest will be different.

What role does your skin color specifically play in marriage?

I think personally my parents luckily are not as strict, or they don't care too much about arranging something, so I would view it more as how my significant others’ parents would view me and my skin tone, like if I were to be set up with a Cambodian man, I think knowing what we know about colorism in the Cambodian community, I would think that–I would hope that they would not view darker skin as being not as beautiful. Maybe they would have hoped for somebody with lighter skin, but hopefully that wouldn't be the case. I know that is something to consider within the Cambodian community and with other Asian communities too.

Would you want your children to be lighter or darker than you? 

Of course it depends on whether I would hope that they would look like me <chuckles>, and I wouldn’t mind either way if they were lighter or darker, although I would just be more concerned–if they looked darker–I would be concerned that other people would see them differently, but I would go into it pointing them to also know that doesn’t matter to me, it shouldn’t matter to them, and I would just do everything I could to empower them to feel like they could do anything they wanted to despite how they look, or their skin colors. 

If you could change anything in your life, what would you change or what would you do?

I actually had a dream about this today. I dreamt that I went back to high school, in my same exact situation, but I had all this knowledge that I have now and it’s easy because I just felt so much more confident in myself, and I felt like I just knew how to navigate within that period of time when I was just struggling with my self-identity and feeling self-acceptance. In my dream, I felt so much more self assured,so with my background, I did go through many different interests in order to be where I am now. And when I do some self reflection, I wouldn't change anything because I wouldn't be the same person I am today but if I could go back, it would probably be to change my major <chuckles>.

Is there anything that you wanted to add or say?

The reason why I wanted to participate in this interview when [my friend] told me about it is because it does have a soft spot in my heart, because it's something that has affected my personal development in how I see the world. I am really honored to be a part of this project, Coloring Cambodia, because I think it makes a difference in being able to provide some insight to other people who might look like us, and allow for these experiences to–for other people to relate to it and not feel like they're alone. I just want whoever might be listening to know that I hope that the beauty standards–they’re changing all the time, and I don't want that to shape how other people feel about themselves, because I want them to be able to make their own decisions and not feel pressured. I want them to just love themselves and just do whatever they want to do. And I want this insight to also empower people of all color types. And to just feel empowered that they can do whatever they want and not feel like how they look will limit what they can do.