Soneta, 21

Lynn, Massachusetts | August 26th, 2021

Date of interview: July 24th, 2020

I'm 21 years old, I’m fully Cambodian, I was born and raised in Lynn, I’m a Christian, I love to sing, and I also write my own songs, and I'm a Scorpio. I like to multitask, yeah I stay busy. I like to do things hands on. I am very sociable, I have the worst memory ever, and I love to eat.

Have you been in Lynn your entire life?

Yes, eastside [and] west.

So, what have you been doing after high school?

Well I was in college for a little bit and I just stopped going suddenly for some reason, and started getting crazy into music, slowly. And now I just work. I just work and write music, I try to live life really, go to church every week, and a lot of it just takes up my time, so <chuckles>.

Which church do you go to?

I go to the one right near Lynn Classical––it’s called Lynn Cambodian Baptist Church. A lot of people used to go there. Yeah, it's called generation cross, the youth group.

What do your parents do?

My dad has been in construction since before I was born. After high school, my brother got into it so they're doing that together. My mom was recently working at Walmart overnight and now she's a greeter overnight at the hospital. Salem Hospital. Yeah. And they of course go to church with me too. 

Are you usually friends with Cambodian people?

Actually, I was not friends with a lot of Asians growing up. Because I didn’t want to be stuck in that stereotype, like, oh, they’re all nerds, or, they all love anime. I don’t know why. I just never wanted to be a part of that. So. I just try to stay away. And honestly, I never felt like I fit in. ‘Cause all the Asians that I’d been exposed to at school, they were just like really quiet. You know? And it wasn’t me. They were always so focused, always studying. So like, I wasn’t like that. I don’t know. I always got good grades, but I just always felt like I didn’t fit, you know?

But, you know, when the Khmer festival came around or the water festival came around I had my Asian friends. We be out to Lowell and all that. I used to go to Lowell every single day when I was younger. My mom worked at a warehouse, and my grandparents lived in Lowell. So every single morning at 5am. My mom worked at a warehouse. I wasn’t exposed then, I was just young, but I do remember always going to Lowell and only seeing Asian people, only going to the Khmer store. But, other than that, I felt like I was around a lot of people, diversity-wise, you know, a lot of that.

It’s interesting you say that because the person who was my youth leader and my youth pastor recently who had left––he is going church planting. And a lot of it has to do with––they’re aiming for the Cambodians, you know, the Cambodian Christians that don't have a place to go or they have like a huge language barrier. So I definitely feel you when it comes to like, Cambodia is not being taken care of. And that's serious, but I'm glad people are noticing it and taking some action.

[about colorism in the community]

I definitely got a lot of conversations about my skin tone growing up. Like “you’re a dark Asian,” “I've never seen a dark Cambodian,” or they would compare me to someone lighter and they're like “you're not Cambodian.” Not talking about me [but] compared to me, they're like “you're not Cambodian, I am,” especially when I turn dark in the summer. I just want to play outside, you know, I really don't like to get dark, but growing up, it made me not play outside as much.

[about dark skin and scars]

Whenever my mom sees scars, she's like, “‘I took care of you all over when you were younger, now look at you, you have this, this and that,’ you know, I don't take offense when she says that, because she did take care of me, <laughs> but you know it's just like, Mom I'm older now, I play ball. You know, I'm gonna get hurt, I'm gonna scratch. But I see where she's coming from. And I'm not mad, but it's like, mom is that what you worry about? That's crazy. That's crazy. I never heard anybody say the same thing. That's crazy. Today is crazy.

Okay, so the first question is what is your ethnicity?

For all I've known, I'm Cambodian; I've always been hearing that I'm part Chinese, but for some reason I don't claim it because I don't know who is Chinese in my family <laughs>. But yeah, I don't know this, like I really gotta ask now, y’all make me wanna ask.

How do you feel about your facial features? And this can include your nose, your eyes, your lips, your face shape.

I like my face. I think I’m beautiful. I think that a lot of Asians, or at least a lot of people will say Asians have small eyes, but I don't, I feel like I have big eyes. So I feel like, for people to say that I look like another Asian, it's like, weird, you know, because obviously we're all different, but at the same time, there’s some things like for example my eyes not being so small, I feel like people who know recognize, okay, she's Cambodian, you know, she's different, I don't know. 

What about your lips?

I mean I think I just took [my lips] from my mom, and she's like, she's like light skin like you guys. So it's like, she's a different Cambodian, you know what I mean?

What about your nose?

It's nice and cute <laughs>.

How would you describe your skin color?

I would say like milk chocolate. Somewhere between milk chocolate and dark chocolate. I'm dark chocolate in the summer. 

How do others describe your skin color?

Oh, man. They definitely wouldn’t say yellow. [But] they'll say brown a lot. It depends on who. A lot of people think because they're lighter than me that I'm super dark, or for those who are a little lighter than me, they still think I'm super dark, but those who are light like my mom's skin color, they would be like “you're Brown.” I think it just depends on who.

But what about other Cambodians?

ខ្មៅ/khmao (black). All the time. “កូនខ្មៅ/koun khmao (black child).” All the time. Not even just ‘cause my skin color. But just the way I am too like the way I talk, they say I’m ខ្មៅ/khmao (black) all the time.

When you say your family dynamic is different here, what do you mean?

I mean, I feel like I can't say much because I don't know much about my family's history, I'm just starting to learn. But for the knowledge I have now, my dad's side is very...there's a lot of drama. There's a lot of stubbornness, pride coming into play, a lot of sneakiness, and just a lot of miscommunication really. On my mom's side, there's mad, I have mad cousins. I have cousins down here, but they're all older now, but over there, I feel like people who are from Cali, they will understand like this and that, or not from, not just from Cali but every time I’ve made a song with someone from Cali they always have mad cousins, mad kids. So when I go down there I have like a bunch of cousins and a lot of it has to do, you know, a lot of it is family oriented, you know, as opposed to down here. They're very understanding, like my aunts and all that, and uncles even. They're very giving, and I don't know if it's because we haven't seen them for so long, because we live down here, but they are like that.

I'm not saying they're perfect, because of course everyone argues and all that. But from what I've noticed, they're very family oriented, really. They’re giving, caring, loving; they might not go to church or anything like my cousins, aunts, and uncles did here, but they have a lot of good morals, good values, and they know how to be a family.

Did your dad’s side grow up here in Lynn?

When my dad was in college he went to Cali, and he had to watch my aunt who I found out recently was part of a gang. And then I found out recently that my uncle is part of a gang. So it kind of ties into, like, I don't know if that's what I really can't answer, because I'm still getting to know them.

How do you feel about your skin color?

When I was younger, like I said I wasn't really faced with a lot of racism or, I was faced with a lot of people that don't stereotype typical Asians. Like “Oh, you should be smart,” this and that, or “you eat cats and dogs,” it's not. But I was always a quiet person so I never was put into that position a lot. It’s just those who [were nearby to] me happen to say things like that. But with that being said I always went to church, I always went to school, and always went to basketball practice, volleyball practices really, so I never really was faced with that much. But growing up, I started to get to know myself, I fixed myself up. I didn't want to be categorized as one of those Asians so I tried my best to get away from that. And with that being said, a lot of people who have encountered me––it felt like an honor to be someone's first Cambodian around here––I felt like I was put on a pedestal because, at the same time that someone might have seen me, it was like I held on a responsibility for my culture, even though I don't know much, but it's like whatever I do, it's like people are intrigued. The way I was brought up and raised, it’s that people are interested, so it's good because I’m different, but I feel like me growing up in church, I was always optimistic. So, anybody came my way with all that was just ignorant. You probably jealous. But that’s really how I feel about being Cambodian. I feel like a lot of people praise me for it to be honest, in a good way. I love being Cambodian, like I would not change anything. Sometimes I wish I was Filipino, but that's just because I personally think Filipinos––every Filipino is beautiful, like, fine as shit. <laughs>

What kind of emotions do you get when you think about your skin color?

I love my skin. I wish sometimes I was not so dark, I love going outside to play, and like I said earlier, I hated to discipline myself not to go out so much or not to be out for so long. And I hate wearing hats. So I just stay in the house. But, I love my skin. [inaudible]

“I love my skin. I wish sometimes I was not so dark, I love going outside to play, and like I said earlier, I hated to discipline myself not to go out so much or not to be out for so long.”

More now than when you did when you were younger?

Heck yeah. I think I just didn't like it back then because I had no freedom, too. I couldn't change, I didn’t have money to do anything. Not that I wanted to, but, you know, just be able to add some bling on to my skin, what’s the difference.

Have your parents ever commented on your skin color before?

Yeah, they always call me ខ្មៅ/khmao (black). <chuckles> Always. My mom's lighter than me so it's like she'll always call me ខ្មៅ/khmao (black). And my dad can't say anything because he's ខ្មៅ/khmao (black). But literally, I can tell he gets a little––not weirded out but not offended either––but when people say he's black or people say like, “Oh, you got your skin color from your dad.” I get why people say that but it's like, I can't really say nothing to that. It’s like, of course I did. It's not like I could decide. That's how I would go about things when people talk about stuff like that.

Do you remember any specific moments in your life where your skin color evoked a lot of feelings?

I don't think so. Just whenever I was in an environment that didn’t have no dark Cambodians. Before, my church, I felt like––they were all Cambodians, but they were all super light, and whenever they would talk about skin color, they pointed out me and my brothers and my dad. So, I mean, I didn't feel alone on it, so it didn't take a toll on how I felt about it much, but that would really be it. When I'm surrounded by people like that.

So people who are not your skin color?

Yeah. Even if they’re Cambodian too.

What about when you’re with people of other ethnicities or races? Do they point out your skin color too?

Yeah, a lot, a lot of them say I have a nice skin color, to be honest. Now that I remember. When I was younger, they said that a lot.

Did people ever think that you are like another race, other than Cambodian?

Oh my goodness, everybody always thinks I'm Black, everybody. When I dyed my hair, I was supposed to have it platinum blonde, or some type of blonde, I forgot. But the lady ended up making it like orange blonde, and when she did that I didn't want to bleach my hair anymore. So I left it. And when I had my hair like that, a lot of people thought I was Spanish. So it's different, all the time, I think, it’s whatever I feel like looking like so to say. Every time I have my hair that's curly they always think I'm Black, always. My hair is naturally straight so most of the time I'm Asian.

Have you ever done anything to change your skin color or use lighter makeup?

The closest thing I would say is foundation really, but that's just the curiosity of wanting to do makeup. Yeah, so I never really did that. Only thing I would say is just wishing I was lighter, that's all. But, I love my skin now. And I feel like, not that my answer is not valid but I feel like, you know, growing up with God, it's like God helped me to love my skin, and I had a lot of praise from people, to be honest. You know, like “Oh, you're beautiful,” “Oh, you have full lips,” and I was always confused. I was like, “What are you talking about? No.” But that’s how I would be about it. I feel like a lot of people acknowledge me more than I acknowledge myself. Yeah. 

What do you think contributed the most to you liking your skin color? Your family, your dad being the same skin color, people complimenting your skin color...

I think it's both. Yeah. I think I liked my skin more as people were complimenting me, you know. Yeah, definitely. Definitely.

Are you the lightest, darkest in your family?

Now, from lightest to darkest, I think it would be my mom, and then me. And then one of my brothers, my dad might be last. [My brother] works construction with my dad so he’s outside. He kinda has to be dark. But I think I’m the second. I think my mom’s always gonna be the first.

What about your grandparents?

They're all light. Everyone said that they were darker than me. They're in Cambodia, yeah, but then they came here and they're just light skinned. Like, do you ever know. 

I know you said you’ve never been to Cambodia but do you kind of have a sense of what people look like there?

I feel like they’re all‒not all, but there's gonna be a few light skinned‒but, I feel like they’re all really dark. Like, what I picture is everybody carrying bags or having it on their shoulders. I picture all the kids either running around playing with each other or I see them in the field holding rice things. I picture all Cambodia being like a flea market atmosphere. Like everyone shops and sell things, or people are farming. That's what I pictured in Cambodia.

So, thinking about you know how you said you think a lot of Cambodia's dark, there’s a few light skinned, where do you think your skin color fits in?

I think I'm in a little‒in the middle but towards the dark side a little bit, just a little. At least now.

Do you feel like the Cambodians that you see in the media like on the karaoke music videos and kampleng/កំប្លែង (comedies) and apsara paintings, do you feel like they represent you? Do you feel like they look like you?

No. Not at all. Definitely not ‘cause I feel like I'm just, I feel like‒I don't know, I feel like I'm whitewashed. I was born and raised in Lynn, I feel like I don't fit it, but it's‒but I love the culture like I love that I can say I’m Cambodian. Yeah, I mean, I can rep us. I just need to educate myself now.

Let's say karaoke is in the house, you see the music video going on the screen, and even like the paintings we were talking about like, what did those people usually look like?

Light skinned. I feel like...I don’t know, they're just really cultured, you know, from like I said, the outfit is clearly Khmer, I mean, the way they talk, it's not how I talk. I mean I can't really take much out of it besides that.

What about people in like kampleng/កំប្លែង (comedies), what do you think those people kind of look like?

I really think that they're like Chinese, Vietnamese people to be honest. Even though they speak Khmer, but I look at them like that because they're just light skinned. I don’t know if that’s weird to even think like that.

Imagine one day, you go get casted in Cambodian media. So like Cambodian producers, what do you think they would cast you as? Let's say it was in a movie, would you be casted in like advertisement, a music video, or let’s say if you were in the movie, what kind of occupation would you have, what would you be wearing, what would your lines be like, what do you think they would have you play?

I feel like I definitely want to be an actor because I feel like I speak fine, but I feel like they would make me a model, you know, because I'm tall, and I have‒I think ‘cause I'm tall. The way my hair was set up back then, it was like, “she's truly Khmer.” That's what they always used to say like, “Oh, koun khmer/កូនខ្មែរ (Khmer child)?” all the time. I was like, “you Black?” But, yeah, they definitely would‒I feel like they would make me a model.

Why do you think that this is elite space, like a place where only certain people are allowed to be there or allowed to be pictured, maybe you know, wealth is an elite space, media is an elite space. Why do you think that the Cambodians there are so much lighter?

I do not know. I always wonder myself. Yeah, that's a good question, yeah. I always wonder that too. I don't‒that's weird. 

But you notice that?

Yeah, like with my mom, my grandparents, it's crazy. They always say, “when I was in srok khmer/ស្រុកខ្មែរ (Cambodia), I was dark,” and now they’re not, so it's like I always wanted‒I never asked that.

What about people who are lighter than you?

They're probably doing all the work like transporting people on the horses. Or they’re all selling at some type of market, you know, or they have‒or they’re the security guards at like some temple or something, that's all I see, and then at a temple too I only see light skin people.

How do you think your life would have been different had you been lighter, or had the ideal Asian features? Slimmer nose, straight silky hair, super light.

Yeah, I think it would be so different. Super different. I for some reason‒I'm gonna speak on my emotions right now‒for some reason, I feel like I would be more noticeable or respected, more taken seriously. I feel like I wouldn't be easily‒I feel like I would be remembered a lot because my facial features, they're not‒like I don't get much pimples so if I was light, I wouldn't have that‒I feel like my acne might not show as much, you know, I feel like I could dye my hair any other color. I can go outside [for] as long as I want and just get some nice tan color, probably be the color I am now <chuckles> if I was lighter. You know just little stuff like that. I still love my skin. I still get respected, I still do all these things, but if I was lighter, I might be able to get all of that more without trying. 

How do you think your relationship with other Cambodians would be? Sometimes thinking about how Cambodians always make comments about the way you look, your skin color especially, do you think that you would have a different relationship with most Cambodians? Do you think you would be closer to them?

I feel like...they will be attracted to me more really now with everything because then they find interest in me as opposed to just us being friends if that makes sense. I think they would just‒I mean, not everybody of course, but [the] majority of those who feel that way about colorism would definitely be attracted to me more. 

Have you ever thought about skin color in respect to your romantic interests like would you want your boyfriend to be paler than you or darker than you?

My very first boyfriend was White, he was lighter than me. Whenever we take pictures, I just always cringed, not because we didn't look good‒I mean, I look good. I’mma say this ‘cause I’m over him, I got a new boo and all that, but definitely would look at our skin colors and be upset because people will look at us, yes we were interracial couples but we just didn’t look good. And not that I'm focused on looks but at the time, it was toxic with him so I could say that now, you know, but I‒how I feel about it, now, I wouldn't go lighter than me‒I wouldn't go super light[er than] me. You know, my boyfriend he's lighter than me but he's, he's still like brown skin, he's Black, so he doesn't really‒now that matters to me, before it didn't at all matter to me because I don't want people to look at us and be like...Not that it matters but to me, I'm an artist so it's like, image is kind of important at the same time.

What kind of thoughts do you think people think when you're a lot darker than your boyfriend?

That I'm not pretty enough sometimes. Yeah, like you know how people say like, “Oh, she looks good with him”? I feel like the complete opposite. When I was with my dude that was my first boyfriend. Like I felt that way every single time someone pointed out. I felt like I was so ugly, when I would take pictures with him and his family. And not because‒just the skin color. Like I don't know, like it didn't bother me‒like it didn't bother me knowing he was White and I was Asian at all, but like, you know, I felt like when people looked at it, it was like cringe too. But, I don't know, that’s how I would feel.

I want you to know that you're not crazy for thinking that at all. I had dated a White guy; my very first boyfriend was a White guy. I felt like...I didn't feel‒I felt different with him, like I felt like I wasn't as girly, like you know, maybe he didn't perceive me as feminine.

Yeah! 

But with a guy that was like my skin color or darker, I definitely felt more delicate, more feminine, more girly.

Definitely. That's crazy. I just realized that. That's how I felt about that.

Would you want your children to be lighter or darker than you? But before you answer, the obvious answer is like, “Oh, skin color doesn’t matter,” because it's your child. But it's also important to acknowledge that children who are lighter skinned, they get treated a lot better than to children who are darker skinned, and no mother wants to have their child go through the hardships and struggles because of the society we live in. So keeping that in mind.

I personally want it to be my skin color because of how much I love my skin color. You know, it's like I said, when people say, “Oh, you're my first Cambodian,” or “Oh, you’re a dark Cambodian,” even when people say that in a good way, I still feel like I'm put at the pedestal because you know I'm beautiful and I have a lot to offer and so I feel like with the skin color, I can teach what complements it, you know what I mean?...So I feel like I wouldn’t mind my kids being my color at all. I wouldn’t mind if they were darker than me either, but I don't think they will just because my boyfriend’s lighter than me. But, I like my brown skin.

Knowing that this is gonna be on a public website, is there anything that you would like to add, anything you missed, anything you remembered, or anything you’d just like to say to the general audience or Cambodian population?

What do I have to say to the Cambodian community that is here? I would politely say, please do not be so stubborn in your old ways, you know, be able to understand what generation it is now and how we can be able to help. You know, I know that these‒I know that the elderly has a lot to say, but because they're so prideful and stubborn they just don't want to share the answers. But in this generation of us‒what are we, third generation? Some type of generation‒we have a lot of questions, you know, we're very curious, we have a lot of passed on inheritance like even behavior wise that we don't understand ourselves, so if there's a–and if the Cambodian community understands in English, please help us out because it's taking a toll on us. And for us to be able to defend themselves, we need to know our origin. And I just hope that at least every time we meet, you know, we understand where we all came from. I feel like it's only a small portion of us, but obviously in like Lowell, there's a lot. But for the community like here, or like anybody else that has small spots, we should hold each other up, you know, praise each other.